1
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:00.960
AJ Riedel: We go
2
00:00:02.680 --> 00:00:18.560
AJ Riedel: welcome to the thriving through. Podcast. I'm your host. Aj. Riedel. And today I am delighted to introduce Mike wood Mike, let's start out by telling us what the name of your company is.
3
00:00:18.680 --> 00:00:25.190
Mike: Yeah. The name of the company is legalmorning.com been in business for approximately 15 years. Now we do
4
00:00:25.420 --> 00:00:45.679
Mike: consulting for digital marketing. We do a lot in the Wikipedia Space Search engine optimization reputation management do a lot with companies getting their digital marketing departments going. So it's it's been a long journey, but it's been great, and thanks for having me on. We had a great conversation last week, so excited to get this on tape.
5
00:00:45.990 --> 00:00:51.029
AJ Riedel: Yeah. And I have submit. Follow up questions from that conversation as we go through today.
6
00:00:51.340 --> 00:00:56.580
AJ Riedel: 1st question is a why question, why did you become a self-employed consultant.
7
00:00:57.760 --> 00:00:58.440
Mike: Well,
8
00:00:59.500 --> 00:01:19.360
Mike: kind of didn't have a choice. I ended up getting fired from my job years ago. I was doing some freelancing on the side for writing and getting into digital marketing, website, building and things like that. It was going really well. I was also in law school at the time, and then I lost my job.
9
00:01:19.450 --> 00:01:47.410
Mike: so I was kind of forced into it. I had a choice of either navigating the job market, which at the time was very, very difficult, so it probably would have been 6 months to a year to find something comparable to what I was doing, or I could have gone head 1st with what I was doing freelancing. So I just decided to continue with that, since I already had a client base and wound up, growing the firm into what it is today.
10
00:01:48.380 --> 00:01:49.220
AJ Riedel: Cool.
11
00:01:51.110 --> 00:01:55.700
AJ Riedel: Would you consider yourself and your business to be a success?
12
00:01:57.140 --> 00:02:05.129
Mike: I mean, that's subjective. Obviously. I think a lot of people based on the number of clients I have. The the money you make.
13
00:02:05.190 --> 00:02:30.969
Mike: you know, would say yes. Some people would say no compared to what they're doing for me personally. Yes, I mean, I live in Southern California. I take care of my family, and I mean I live a great life. I'm able to help people expand their businesses, consult them with the knowledge I have, and some of the struggles that I may have had early on. I don't have anymore, like some of the worries about getting clients, because, you know.
14
00:02:31.220 --> 00:02:45.599
Mike: over time you do grow that client base to where the fears you have of entrepreneurship kind of slowly move away from there so you can focus on there so personally for me. Yes, I'm I'm very content, I think would be the word.
15
00:02:45.810 --> 00:02:50.080
AJ Riedel: Okay, besides, financial success.
16
00:02:50.600 --> 00:02:52.669
AJ Riedel: How do you measure success?
17
00:02:53.140 --> 00:03:07.219
Mike: For me is contentment. Just what I said. You know I mean a lot of people. May some people may step in to run my firm and think, Oh, wow! This is just a disaster. Some people may step in and say, it's the greatest thing ever
18
00:03:07.220 --> 00:03:27.609
Mike: for me. I'm very content, like, I said. I make what I need to make in order to live. I'm able to take care of my family. I don't have the worries of looking for a job or trying to find clients because I have a good client base. So for me, I wake up every day, and I'm like I enjoy what I'm doing. I'm very, very content. There's no specific
19
00:03:27.610 --> 00:03:47.589
Mike: dollar amount that can do it. There's no specific number of clients that can do it. It's all at this point a personal success. Once you're able to grow your business into what you need to survive, everything else is about contentment. Are you satisfied? Do you enjoy what you're doing? So that's how I would measure it as success.
20
00:03:47.720 --> 00:03:49.819
AJ Riedel: I love it. I I am.
21
00:03:49.950 --> 00:03:56.450
AJ Riedel: We're kind of in simpatico there, because I measure success with contentment as well.
22
00:03:56.450 --> 00:03:57.300
Mike: Nice.
23
00:03:57.300 --> 00:03:58.664
AJ Riedel: That's really cool.
24
00:04:00.000 --> 00:04:15.729
AJ Riedel: Describe how you help your clients in a sentence or 2. You talked a little bit about it, sort of in general terms, but specifically looking at, if you were to like, do I help my clients do? What? How would you phrase what? How you help your clients.
25
00:04:16.120 --> 00:04:33.109
Mike: So it depends on which side we're talking about, like Wikipedia is one of our main focuses. So I help a lot of people navigate Wikipedia, which is very, very harsh environment, to understand the rules and the guidelines to do that, so I help them navigate it so they can control their presence on Wikipedia
26
00:04:33.110 --> 00:04:52.089
Mike: from the consulting side with the digital marketing. I help a lot of startups, and even veteran companies reshape their digital marketing departments so that they're able to gain more clients and gain more presence online, which is where the majority of your marketing should be focused on right now.
27
00:04:52.310 --> 00:04:57.050
AJ Riedel: Yes, that's that's modern marketing is the digital marketing world. Yes.
28
00:04:57.220 --> 00:05:04.479
AJ Riedel: So for the the your clients, for Wikipedia, the problem you're solving for them is that they can't navigate
29
00:05:04.770 --> 00:05:13.039
AJ Riedel: the Wikipedia rules and regulations and environment on their own. What is the problem
30
00:05:13.240 --> 00:05:18.309
AJ Riedel: for your other clients, for your digital marketing clients? What problem do you solve for them?
31
00:05:18.480 --> 00:05:40.100
Mike: So a lot of things that happen with digital marketing is, people will go online and try to learn the best things to do for digital marketing. So if a startup comes on, there's a new entrepreneur starts a business. They may go online and figure out, you know, how do I do digital marketing. I was having this conversation the other day, as we live in an age where
32
00:05:40.100 --> 00:05:59.560
Mike: it's not a lack of information that's holding us back, it's having too much information that's holding us back. So there's so many things out there that tell you you should do A, you should do B, and if you don't dig deep enough you may go down the wrong road with your digital marketing. You may throw thousands of dollars down one path where it's 1 that you don't really need.
33
00:05:59.560 --> 00:06:17.500
Mike: Every business should be unique as far as how they approach digital marketing based on what they sell, who their target audience is everything. You know, whether they want to bring people in from social media. Where are their client bases? So my main thing is to help them focus on
34
00:06:17.500 --> 00:06:27.569
Mike: the specific areas of digital marketing that they should be focusing on because you can go online and Google, you know, how do I do digital marketing? And it's going to give you a sea of information.
35
00:06:27.570 --> 00:06:52.150
Mike: The issue is, you may have a company that has a specific niche that needs to go in one direction, and you're out swimming in the middle of the ocean, so they pay me to help save them money from going down all those paths. I can just put them on the right road, help them develop processes whether they're doing social media email drip campaigns, whatever they're going to be doing to get them on the right path.
36
00:06:52.150 --> 00:07:00.400
Mike: build those processes so they can bring in a team that can, just, you know, adhere to those processes and and make it just like a finely tuned machine.
37
00:07:00.880 --> 00:07:06.820
AJ Riedel: Nice. And ultimately, that's what we want. A finally tuned machine that brings in clients and revenue.
38
00:07:06.820 --> 00:07:07.900
Mike: Absolutely.
39
00:07:07.900 --> 00:07:08.240
AJ Riedel: Yeah.
40
00:07:08.620 --> 00:07:23.750
Mike: My whole thing with clients is I? I don't want to be there in 6 months, you know you. My my job is within that 6 months develop a process for them so they can hire anybody to come in and do the job. They don't have to worry about reinventing things, you know, because
41
00:07:23.850 --> 00:07:41.940
Mike: they can find whoever they want, whether someone not experienced because they have the processes to teach them. They can have somebody that's very experienced, that can just come in and and drive, you know. Take the wheel and drive. So that's that's the ultimate goal. I don't want to be there in 6 months. I want to be able to build that process and let you bring in the team that can do it for you.
42
00:07:42.580 --> 00:07:51.360
AJ Riedel: What comes to mind is that old story about you? Don't you? Don't teach somebody. You don't give a person fish. You teach them how to fish.
43
00:07:51.360 --> 00:07:53.939
AJ Riedel: Absolutely doing is teaching them how to fish.
44
00:07:54.420 --> 00:07:55.120
Mike: Absolutely.
45
00:07:55.220 --> 00:08:24.070
Mike: And you know, there's digital marketing firms that focus on doing that for companies like, we'll do your digital marketing as well. But in the end. You're just going to keep paying us more and more money. I found that as a consultant it's better because we get a lot of referrals. People remember us, and we still get those consultations for teams that we built for companies. So we may build a team in a great process, and then, a year or 2 later, we get a call, and they say something's not working correctly.
46
00:08:24.070 --> 00:08:53.679
Mike: I can come in and look. Things have things always change in the digital world. As you know, there may be something that was broken, something that wasn't done correctly, or something that just needs to change, because times have changed. So it's always more fun to be able to come in and do that process than you know, sitting behind a computer and doing the work, you know, day in and day out. It it's it's easier for me to lead a team than it is to sit here and do it myself. So more more satisfaction, more content for it.
47
00:08:54.310 --> 00:09:01.260
AJ Riedel: So that that's that differentiates you from digital marketing agencies who actually do the work.
48
00:09:01.430 --> 00:09:06.349
AJ Riedel: How do you differentiate yourself from other digital marketing?
49
00:09:06.660 --> 00:09:12.969
AJ Riedel: You know, whatever the what, consulting, what you do, how do you differentiate yourself?
50
00:09:12.970 --> 00:09:14.100
Mike: So it's
51
00:09:14.570 --> 00:09:43.270
Mike: it used to be hard. If you're just gonna focus on consulting or doing the digital marketing, it's it's it's kind of hard, but what we do is both. So when a client comes to us and say, we need help with digital marketing, I can present them with many proposals. Here's what it would cost for us to do it in house here, and here's the benefits and the negatives. In fact, we have some startup companies that. Say, we don't want the process. We're startup. We want to go for the next 2 years, just building our platform like crazy, and we'll pay you to do it.
52
00:09:43.270 --> 00:10:07.490
Mike: Great. We have that. So we take in those clients, and then we also offer them. We can come in, consult, train your staff, your team build that process so you can do it in house. Some people say, Okay, great. Let's go with that by offering both of those. It doesn't back us into a corner. And that's kind of what differentiates us. You don't have to necessarily look for a consultant, or necessarily look for someone to do your digital marketing because we do both.
53
00:10:07.490 --> 00:10:31.850
Mike: Sometimes we'll come in and run that for a year for everybody, and then build the process for them, depending on whatever shifts happen in the market or for that specific company, so sometimes it is good to run it out for a year. Spend the money with our agency, allow us to do everything internally for you, and then reevaluate after that year and say, Okay, would it be more beneficial to bring people in house or continue to contract with my agency in order to be able to do it.
54
00:10:32.110 --> 00:10:32.900
AJ Riedel: Okay.
55
00:10:34.210 --> 00:10:42.619
AJ Riedel: do you? Who would you? You talked about? You work with some startups. How would you define who is your ideal client?
56
00:10:44.040 --> 00:11:07.310
Mike: So we work with everybody from solo, you know, entrepreneurs up to fortune. 500 clients, you know our ideal client is people who trust the process. So it's kind of hard to say. You know, we want medium sized companies, large companies or small companies. It's really good fit when we can find somebody that
57
00:11:07.310 --> 00:11:17.019
Mike: understands the process. We're able to explain it, and they can go along with our recommendations. They don't have to choose every recommendation. But the fact that they're open to the recommendations.
58
00:11:17.265 --> 00:11:27.809
Mike: Is the ideal client. We may have people that come in and say, we want you to do A, B and C, and when we evaluate it, we think that A, B and C isn't going to be the best fit for them.
59
00:11:27.830 --> 00:11:54.739
Mike: We'll recommend it to them and say we can do what you want, but the results aren't going to be what you what you necessarily want. We can go forward with it, but that's not necessarily the ideal client, because we want to make sure that there's success in the end. So sometimes it doesn't work out. Maybe a client wants to go in a different direction, and our advice is to go in a different direction. So sometimes that doesn't work out. So the ideal client is when everybody's on the same page. Everybody likes the ideas
60
00:11:54.740 --> 00:12:10.200
Mike: they can feed what they're looking for. We can feed what we think is best, and we can come up with a good plan that that fits everybody. You know. We're able to give them the best of the digital marketing world. They're able to get the best return on their dollar, because in the end a year from now, if
61
00:12:10.210 --> 00:12:29.329
Mike: they don't have any return on their marketing dollar, ultimately it's going to be us that gets blamed. So we want to make sure. This is the path that we feel based on experience based on other people in the niche based on where the market is going, based on where digital marketing is at this current, you know day because it changed from yesterday
62
00:12:29.650 --> 00:12:42.800
Mike: change tomorrow. We think this is the best forward. You don't have to go with it, but as long as everybody's open to it we're able to kind of guide that process to where they do get a return on their investment, which ultimately makes everybody happy.
63
00:12:43.960 --> 00:12:50.549
AJ Riedel: Would you be willing if you've got a a prospective client who who you come in? And you say
64
00:12:50.730 --> 00:13:02.920
AJ Riedel: we want you to be successful and get a good return on investment. And this is the way to go. And they say absolutely not. We want to go this way. Would are you willing to walk away from those prospective clients.
65
00:13:02.920 --> 00:13:09.139
Mike: Yes, the the biggest, the biggest thing that I think entrepreneurs need to learn is how to say no.
66
00:13:09.500 --> 00:13:27.429
Mike: and and I don't want to say, I don't want to make it sound like it's our way or the highway. There's times when clients have said No, we absolutely. We don't care about your overall marketing perspective that you give us. We only want to focus on social media right now. And I and I tell them we will focus on that if you want.
67
00:13:27.440 --> 00:13:47.660
Mike: But here is going to be the likely results. We hope to have these results. But this is the likelihood of results, and if they don't want to move forward with it, that's fine. Sometimes we don't want to move forward with it. That's fine. But in the end I think if everybody's open and most of the time clients will be like, okay, we see where you're going. With this. We still want to try this way 1st
68
00:13:47.730 --> 00:14:06.149
Mike: great, then let's do it, and we will, you know, no doubt, take on those projects a lot of times where I'm referring to the No. Might not necessarily be digital marketing per se. It may come more towards the Wikipedia side, where we have clients that say we want this
69
00:14:06.150 --> 00:14:34.139
Mike: to be put onto our Wikipedia page. And when I look at the rules, the guidelines, the press surrounding that there's there's no way we can do it. It's just going to get removed. It's going to cause a headache. It's going to get their page flagged. It's going to make it more difficult to update in the future. There's times where we've had to tell clients straight up. We can't do this for you. You know we appreciate the opportunity to, you know, bid on the project. We can do other digital marketing services for you. But this
70
00:14:34.300 --> 00:14:56.369
Mike: specific thing that you want with Wikipedia it just can't be done. And we're not going to do that as an agency, because there, it's just going to backfire on everybody. So I would say that probably 99% of the times when we say, no, it's on the Wikipedia side. Other times, with the digital marketing side we always give that recommendation. If people want to go with it. Great, if they don't, we'll tell them we'll still go forward. But
71
00:14:56.370 --> 00:15:16.610
Mike: here's the likelihood of what's going on so. And we do a lot of referrals, too. We have agencies that we work with, where, if there's certain, you know, I don't want to just turn a company away if they're, you know, if they're like. No, we absolutely want to do this. Sometimes we can do it, sometimes we refer it out. So it all depends. Every client's going to be different. Every project's going to be different.
72
00:15:17.100 --> 00:15:21.149
AJ Riedel: What I love is that you make them aware of the consequences.
73
00:15:21.570 --> 00:15:28.600
AJ Riedel: Here's what's probably going to happen if you go this direction. I mean you. You are giving them advice.
74
00:15:28.770 --> 00:15:29.780
AJ Riedel: and
75
00:15:30.530 --> 00:15:43.489
AJ Riedel: you know they that they maybe they'll come back and prove you wrong. But probably not. They're probably going to get the I mean, with all your years of experience, they're going to get that result. And and they can't come back and say, Well, you promised.
76
00:15:44.180 --> 00:15:46.729
AJ Riedel: You know that this, this and this is like.
77
00:15:47.500 --> 00:15:50.829
AJ Riedel: So I warned you that this is what might happen. Yeah.
78
00:15:51.210 --> 00:16:10.339
Mike: And we've been proved wrong. I mean, we've been proved wrong. But what I don't want to have happen. And this this is what I say to every client, I would rather not do this project and do it, because I don't want to be on this same call 6 months from now, when you're asking me, Mike, what happened, I thought we were, gonna get a B and C, and it's like
79
00:16:10.370 --> 00:16:30.469
Mike: we. We weren't right. We're trying to get that for you, and we're using every avenue, showing them every avenue but it we just didn't feel it was going to work. Sometimes we're proven wrong early on in early on. It happened quite a bit which helped us learn. It helped us open our eyes to what the possibilities are, but you know when it
80
00:16:30.480 --> 00:16:41.569
Mike: gets into it and what people want to do. Now, yeah, no problem. We'll we'll gladly advise you what you can get, what you can't get what the likelihood is, what the likelihood is not. And you know we'll go from there.
81
00:16:42.200 --> 00:16:44.920
AJ Riedel: How do you? What strikes me is that
82
00:16:46.010 --> 00:16:54.710
AJ Riedel: you have? Did you have this kind of confidence to say that early in your consulting career.
83
00:16:55.340 --> 00:16:59.460
Mike: Absolutely absolutely not. And anyone that tells you that is gonna lie.
84
00:16:59.680 --> 00:17:00.880
Mike: It's
85
00:17:01.060 --> 00:17:21.100
Mike: it's really hard when you're doing digital marketing, to say no to clients initially, because you're getting clients, and you want to show them that you are the best at what you do. Obviously, it's income. And you know, we talked about, you know, in our phone conversation there's there's pitfalls. Money is the one you know. You're always looking at the money to be able to
86
00:17:21.099 --> 00:17:35.319
Mike: sustain your business. So you're just taking on any project you can. It's very hard to say no in the beginning, because you feel like you're going to lose income or lose out on things. So no, absolutely not very difficult.
87
00:17:35.740 --> 00:17:37.830
AJ Riedel: How did you get the confidence
88
00:17:38.110 --> 00:18:05.130
AJ Riedel: to be able to say no, or to push? You're not really in in many cases, not necessarily saying, No, but you are pushing back a little bit, and I think the tendency for especially newer self-employed consultants is to feel like, yes, sir, you know anything you say, client, I'll I'll do anything you want, and they will fall flat on their face. I know I did several times when I went outside my niche
89
00:18:05.290 --> 00:18:12.860
AJ Riedel: and said, I'm never doing that again. I'm staying right within my sweet spot, because it doesn't work out
90
00:18:13.010 --> 00:18:19.580
AJ Riedel: when I venture out. So how do you build the confidence? What would you say to a new self-employed consultant?
91
00:18:19.830 --> 00:18:48.790
Mike: So it's it's kind of hard. It's something that you have to find in in yourself. Right? It's not really a framework that I can give you to do that. I was just thinking of the example. The one that I can remember was about 10 years ago, and it was a client for Wikipedia, and I never disclose my clients that I work with with Wikipedia, but they wanted something specifically done on their Wikipedia page, and I told them. There's no way we can do this. And they said, We'll pay you even more money to do it.
92
00:18:48.790 --> 00:19:09.470
Mike: which, of course, as you know, newer, you're like, Oh, wow! Okay. And I came back to them and said, I'm sorry it's been great working with you. I'd love to work with you. I can't do this, because in the end I just saw no amount of money was going to be worth the backlash that we were going to face once we did this, so I told that to client.
93
00:19:09.500 --> 00:19:17.899
Mike: and I was just worried. I'm going to lose this income. I'm going to start losing my business. That client got back with me and said, You know what we thought about it.
94
00:19:18.010 --> 00:19:37.829
Mike: We've never had anybody consult us for Wikipedia that has actually put that out there. Everybody that we've asked. This had just sent us an invoice and said, This is what it's going to cost. You actually told us no, which made us actually look and think. Maybe there's something with this that clients been with me to this day.
95
00:19:38.530 --> 00:19:47.809
Mike: So I think it was at that point. Maybe that wasn't the point. But that's a good example there where I thought, okay, so if I'm honest about what can and can't happen.
96
00:19:48.400 --> 00:20:11.660
Mike: that's going to retain a client more than just trying and then making excuses for things that happen in the end. And you can go online and Google, and you can see that happens a lot with SEO companies where they'll promise you. Page one. Search results, you know, in a day, and then they don't. You know, they can't come through. They know better. They can't come through, maybe eventually they can. So
97
00:20:11.660 --> 00:20:22.579
Mike: I learned, don't make promises. It's easier just to say no, I can't make that promise. And then, you know, I found that clients will actually hire you for saying no. In those instances.
98
00:20:22.970 --> 00:20:24.690
AJ Riedel: The importance of integrity.
99
00:20:24.690 --> 00:20:25.420
Mike: Best.
100
00:20:25.850 --> 00:20:26.650
AJ Riedel: Yeah.
101
00:20:29.680 --> 00:20:36.210
AJ Riedel: you mentioned when we talked last week that financial insecurity was a challenge
102
00:20:36.330 --> 00:20:40.860
AJ Riedel: or financial uncertainty was a major challenge when you early on
103
00:20:41.750 --> 00:20:50.769
AJ Riedel: so with that. Did you ever struggle with charging what you were worth? And how did you overcome those pricing insecurities.
104
00:20:50.840 --> 00:21:19.310
Mike: Yeah, pricing insecurities are are big, especially with freelancers, especially in digital marketing, and it is hard. I think it it all comes down to. You know your client base. You have to build a a trusted client base that knows their value or knows your value, and you know their value. You also can't overcharge. There's companies that offer our services that just overcharge because they know people will pay it.
105
00:21:19.330 --> 00:21:38.739
Mike: So I think once you start doing the projects, and people know your reputation. You do have that integrity, and you do start getting referrals. You can actually start charging more what it's worth for me. It was probably about a 2 year roller coaster of determining
106
00:21:38.790 --> 00:21:47.219
Mike: what the film. You know, what the fair market value was for the services we offer. You know I could undercut like a lot of people do on these freelance sites.
107
00:21:47.250 --> 00:22:04.339
Mike: but I'm not able to offer as good of a service if I'm only charging a little bit, because I can only focus so much time on there. On the other hand, I don't want to charge people the highest rate I can find online regardless of how good we are, because I want to be fair with people that keeps
108
00:22:04.340 --> 00:22:29.459
Mike: retention of clients. People know that they're paying a fair price for what they're getting. They're not just going off a checklist and choosing somebody. So it was a 2 year battle for me back and forth, you know, was this too high? And then you start losing clients. Is this too low? Okay? And the other thing, too? I found that sometimes, if you do undercut and just charge low in order to get a project. This goes back to the saying No.
109
00:22:29.540 --> 00:22:36.080
Mike: When I was charging too low for projects, I found that those were often the most difficult clients to work with.
110
00:22:36.490 --> 00:22:49.800
Mike: because you're only charging a little bit. And now they want the world as opposed to someone that would way overpaid. That's just satisfied with, you know, a certain percentage of what you can do. So you really have to find that middle ground.
111
00:22:49.800 --> 00:23:08.560
Mike: And it all comes from, you know, winning projects, not winning projects, the type of referrals you get. And that was one thing that I kept an eye on is, not only are people using my services again, but are they telling other people to use my services? You know, when you start getting that, you know that you're at a pretty good price. Point.
112
00:23:09.170 --> 00:23:09.970
AJ Riedel: Love it.
113
00:23:10.280 --> 00:23:15.819
AJ Riedel: Speaking of referrals, those people, you get them coming back, as
114
00:23:16.010 --> 00:23:31.649
AJ Riedel: you know, sort of the measure of how did you do for a client is both. Do they become a client again, or do they stay with you? But then also do they refer others to you? Do you specifically ask for referrals? Or do you kind of wait for them to
115
00:23:33.060 --> 00:23:33.630
AJ Riedel: refer.
116
00:23:33.630 --> 00:23:58.549
Mike: You know, it depends. So you know, if you're looking at this from a from an agency standpoint, and you have an agency, and you're working with someone that may have ties with other companies or people that you know you can help. Then, absolutely, you need to ask for that referral. And and I don't think it's ever a detriment to ask for a referral. When you're done you can say, Hey, I appreciate it. You know. One thing that I always ask people is, why did you use my services?
117
00:23:58.550 --> 00:24:13.500
Mike: Get that feedback, you know, and then say, Okay, I'm glad you enjoy it. Do you know anybody that could use these services and then ask them for that? Introduction, and then you can reach out and and tell them what you have to offer. So it's it's never detrimental not to ask.
118
00:24:13.500 --> 00:24:27.640
Mike: But if you if you see clients that have other clients you can help, then absolutely, it's important to do that. If it's a client where you know it's a 1 off project. I don't always ask for the referral right away, but I always follow up with them later on. Maybe it's.
119
00:24:27.640 --> 00:24:53.030
Mike: you know, 6 months down the line. I'll ask them how things are going. Give them an update on what I see, you know. Sometimes we'll run an SEO report for people and just send it in an email and say, Hey, I know we're not obligated anymore. We're not under agreement, but I thought I'd run this report. Have a look at it. It looks like you're doing good. Reach out if you need anything. That's pretty much asking for their repeat business and the referrals, you know, and we have the time to do that. And people appreciate it, and sometimes they just do it on their own.
120
00:24:54.370 --> 00:24:56.230
AJ Riedel: Cool love, it love it.
121
00:24:57.408 --> 00:25:11.440
Mike: One thing that I'm glad you brought that up one caveat I wanna give to young entrepreneurs and people just starting in this consulting business is. And we're talking about price pointing. One thing that's going to come up early on when you become a consultant
122
00:25:11.840 --> 00:25:24.689
Mike: is people offering to give you referrals in exchange for a lower rate on a project. This you need to say no to each and every time
123
00:25:24.850 --> 00:25:42.169
Mike: I cannot name one project that I took on under those conditions where I received a referral from. So always make sure that if people are saying, Hey, I'll refer you to 20 people. If you can give me a discount on this.
124
00:25:42.320 --> 00:25:45.930
Mike: my thing is look, let's go forward with this project.
125
00:25:46.770 --> 00:26:15.239
Mike: If we do a good job, and you feel like referring people to that. I can give you a discount on the next project, or on some residual projects, such as monitoring and maintenance throughout the years, but I always go forward with that. I never do work or make a price point based on future promises from clients, because it doesn't work. And it's not just my industry, either. I mean, you can go to Google, and you can see a lot of consultants, a lot of business leaders that will tell you it just don't do it.
126
00:26:15.240 --> 00:26:17.319
Mike: it it doesn't happen so.
127
00:26:17.320 --> 00:26:20.680
AJ Riedel: Right exactly. Now, let's be speaking of discounts.
128
00:26:20.680 --> 00:26:21.320
Mike: Yes.
129
00:26:21.490 --> 00:26:22.610
AJ Riedel: In general.
130
00:26:23.070 --> 00:26:29.430
AJ Riedel: If a prospective client says to you, you submit a proposal
131
00:26:29.810 --> 00:26:38.920
AJ Riedel: with a specific price, and they come back and say, that's too expensive, or they say, can you give me a discount? How do you handle those.
132
00:26:39.340 --> 00:26:44.569
Mike: It. It's all gonna depend. I mean, if it's something where we can give a discount which which normally
133
00:26:44.750 --> 00:27:10.749
Mike: there's not too many times, because we have a pretty good price point a lot of times. You just. You have to cut ties. I mean you. You can show them their value. You can use any type of closing pitches that you want. You can Google closing pitches for sales. And I tell them, Hey, if it's a if it's about cost. I get it. We can remove certain things from the project to make you at a lower price point, but you may not get the same benefit, so you can show them cost benefit as you're doing that
134
00:27:10.750 --> 00:27:17.169
Mike: trying to, you know. Quote unquote close, you know a sale, if you will, so I don't want to say just.
135
00:27:17.170 --> 00:27:41.999
Mike: you know, lower your price point, you know. Sometimes there's something in there that people may not need, and I'll be like, hey? No problem. Let's get rid of this because you might not need it. Anyway, we threw it in, presented it with you, wanted it. Let's get rid of that, or you know what. We may be able to lower this a little bit in order to earn their business. But it really won't be much, but always focus on the value of what you offer versus cost. A great example is.
136
00:27:42.000 --> 00:28:00.309
Mike: there's a lot of agencies out there that do Wikipedia now, because it's it's a very unique type of consulting. But there's only, I would say, 4 or 5 companies such as myself, that can do it with a high proficiency, who know the rules. They know exactly what's going on there. But there's
137
00:28:00.590 --> 00:28:26.380
Mike: dozens, probably 50 companies out there that offer it. And occasionally I will get an email that says, Hey, I got a quote from somebody that said they can do it, for you know, X amount, which is a 10th of what I'm you know, proposing to them. I'm always polite with them and say, Hey, look! I understand. If it's about cost, and you want to go with that person. Please do just know, this is like surgery. You know. You're paying a surgeon to do this project as opposed to
138
00:28:26.380 --> 00:28:38.130
Mike: paying somebody who you just met that has a chainsaw that's going to do the surgery for you. There's going to be difference in the quality you get. So always always make sure that they understand your quality.
139
00:28:38.580 --> 00:28:39.350
AJ Riedel: Okay.
140
00:28:39.470 --> 00:28:40.890
AJ Riedel: And I love.
141
00:28:41.600 --> 00:28:49.558
AJ Riedel: I love what you said. I think this is really important for new consultants. You don't. When somebody objects to the price.
142
00:28:50.290 --> 00:28:52.990
Mike: Never win somebody based on the cost. No.
143
00:28:52.990 --> 00:29:13.190
AJ Riedel: Right well, and you say, but you also, you say we could, you know, if if the cost is really an issue, we can take this or this out, but you won't get the same results. But you do. You don't give them a discount. You give them a way to kind of win by reducing the cost of the project
144
00:29:13.690 --> 00:29:24.100
AJ Riedel: by taking something out of the proposal rather than rolling over and saying, You know, like acting like a dog and say, yes, I'll give you anything you want if you scratch my belly.
145
00:29:25.240 --> 00:29:25.820
AJ Riedel: Yeah.
146
00:29:25.820 --> 00:29:33.529
Mike: Correct, and in reality you can't do that for them, because the cost that you have as an agency to do that stuff
147
00:29:33.740 --> 00:29:40.939
Mike: you're not going to make any money. It's not going to motivate you. It's not going to make you want to do a good job. There's agencies out there that will work
148
00:29:40.940 --> 00:30:05.999
Mike: with such a fine line there. But they're just they're just turning their wheels or not really helping their clients. They're just going on cookie cutter type metrics instead of actually evaluating what's what's happening, you know, in the current market with current digital marketing and what they need to do for people. So it is always about quality. And when I say taking things off the table, it's not like selling a car where I say, Okay, I'll give you the car. But I won't give you the wheels.
149
00:30:06.269 --> 00:30:29.740
Mike: The the best example I can say is, people will say, Hey, we want an overall online strategy. We're just starting out. So we want a website, social media email marketing. And you know, I present them with a quote. And they're like, Wow, this is more than what we expected it to be. Now, 1st of all, keep in mind that that quote is comparable to a lot of agencies, and it's not on the high end, and it's definitely not on the low end. So
150
00:30:29.870 --> 00:30:47.779
Mike: to them, it's not about the value. It's about the cost, right, if it's about the value, and you don't see our value you want. That's that's something different. But they see the value. It's just they actually can't do that cost. We may come in and say, Okay, so you're a new company. Let's 1st of all start with your website and email lists.
151
00:30:48.080 --> 00:31:10.809
Mike: Let's do that. And let's get that going for 6 months we'll create blog content, and we'll start your social media channels. But we won't really push anything on social media. And then in 6 months, we can actually implement the social media aspect of it, and that also gives them time to see your value as well. So you can actually start on some of the portion of the project that you would be doing.
152
00:31:10.810 --> 00:31:23.149
Mike: They can see the value and say, Okay, it is worth it. We are making money based on the initial part. So let's go ahead and put the money into the other part of the project. So it's it's always a good thing to do. So it's not necessarily like.
153
00:31:23.150 --> 00:31:34.999
Mike: okay, I'm only going to build a website for you, and you're on your own. I always want to offer them some type of value, because it makes no sense for me just to build the cornerstone for them. And then, okay, we can't do anything else for you.
154
00:31:35.370 --> 00:31:39.260
AJ Riedel: Right? Right? Cause the website alone is probably not gonna do it.
155
00:31:39.260 --> 00:31:40.030
Mike: Correct.
156
00:31:40.030 --> 00:31:42.579
AJ Riedel: It's like selling them the car without the wheels.
157
00:31:42.580 --> 00:31:43.620
Mike: Absolutely.
158
00:31:43.780 --> 00:31:50.249
AJ Riedel: Maybe selling them. Yeah, I was looking, thinking for another analogy. But yeah.
159
00:31:50.680 --> 00:31:56.860
AJ Riedel: you grew your business from what? 10,000 to 6 figures in a year.
160
00:31:57.500 --> 00:32:20.030
Mike: Yeah. So when I started off, it was mainly just freelancing, going on freelance websites and picking up, you know, projects from freelancer upwork. I don't remember what it was called at the time, but it was another freelance site, just picking up projects here and there, and I think my 1st year I was gonna make maybe 10 to $15,000 on the side.
161
00:32:20.310 --> 00:32:36.970
Mike: I started getting Referrals like crazy because of what we offered specifically in the Wikipedia niche. And so right when I lost my job and had to focus on it full time. That 1st year was 6 figures, I mean. It grew very, very rapidly now.
162
00:32:37.190 --> 00:32:55.610
Mike: Over the next few years there were struggles back and forth, because, of course, you get this enormous amount of of client base, and you know, initially, you don't necessarily have the skills to be able to retain them, and when I say, retain them, I'm not talking about just keeping them in a cage to retain a customer.
163
00:32:55.610 --> 00:33:24.699
Mike: you have to constantly offer them value. You have to constantly reach out to them. You have to constantly be in touch with them. You have to constantly do things for them to show them what your worth is. So a lot of those things in the beginning weren't so initially, you'll lose clients because you don't know how to do the communication, how how to see what they want. You're just, you know, you're kind of tunnel focused. So there were some ups and downs for a few years after that, but then it started slowly, coming back to where it is now.
164
00:33:25.050 --> 00:33:26.030
AJ Riedel: Okay.
165
00:33:26.840 --> 00:33:37.500
AJ Riedel: what can you think of what's were there any specific strategies that come to mind that really accelerated your growth when you went? When you went kind of full time.
166
00:33:37.720 --> 00:33:41.660
AJ Riedel: and that 1st year when you went straight to fix 6 figures.
167
00:33:42.140 --> 00:33:44.740
Mike: Yeah, no focus and don't stop.
168
00:33:44.780 --> 00:33:58.060
Mike: You have to focus on what you believe is going to be successful, whether you're going to be outreaching for more clients. Whether you're doing advertising for clients, whether you're asking for referrals, whether you're focusing 100% on current clients
169
00:33:58.060 --> 00:34:21.290
Mike: and stay focused on that don't navigate one way or another a lot of times as a new entrepreneur. You're gonna think, okay, I'm going to do outreach. I'm going to go to Linkedin and outreach for clients, and you may do that for a few weeks and not really get a good return and think, oh, this is a failure. I'm going to go to something else. No, if you've done the research, and that's where your clientele are, and that's where you need to be.
170
00:34:21.350 --> 00:34:41.990
Mike: That's what you need to do, focus on it, do it, double down, spend your time on it until you have absolutely exhausted it. Because if that's where the clientele is. That's where you're going to get your client. Now. You may have to change your approach on how you reach out, or things you may say in order to get their attention, to be able to tell them what you offer. But
171
00:34:41.989 --> 00:35:07.049
Mike: don't go all over the board. You need to focus on what you believe is going to turn your company around, and that's what did it for me. One of the things that I did was outreach to specific industries. That's what I wanted to focus on. I was helping Wikipedia for everybody. And then I said, Okay, where are the majority of my clients coming from? And there were 2 industries where they were coming from, and I said, Well, obviously.
172
00:35:07.380 --> 00:35:34.689
Mike: it's doing good for these industries. I have people that can testify to me being good in these industries. These are the 2 I'm going to focus on. So I took all my resources into those 2 industries and it helped double the business, I mean within a year it was double. So then I'm still getting the other business off of other referrals. But they weren't the ones that I was targeting so for those who don't know Gary Vaynerchuk. He's good person to listen to a lot of good advice.
173
00:35:34.690 --> 00:36:01.130
Mike: and one thing that he said that always resonates with me is double down on what you know, and that's what I would say. Apply to everybody. If you're making money like digital marketing firm. If you're making money on social media, helping people with social media, that's where you need to focus and double down with your talents. There you can always move into things like website building search engine optimization. But if this is where you're getting clientele. And this is where you're focused on. That's where you need to go.
174
00:36:01.130 --> 00:36:25.299
Mike: So that's that's also why Wikipedia Wikipedia for the first, st I would say 7, 8 years was the majority of my business, because that's where we doubled down on. That's where the clientele was. That's where our expertise was. And then we were able to kind of branch out more of the consulting more of the you know, website building and things like that as I built my team around it. But double down on what you know. That's where the money is. That's where you go for it.
175
00:36:26.160 --> 00:36:33.900
AJ Riedel: What I'm also hearing. And what really impressed me when we talked last week, is that defining your niche?
176
00:36:34.050 --> 00:36:49.639
AJ Riedel: And not only did you define your niche early on as Wikipedia. But then you defined it even further into 2 industries. I hear so many self-employed consultants that basically say I don't. Wanna. I don't want to limit myself.
177
00:36:49.790 --> 00:36:59.570
AJ Riedel: you know, and and what would. What to me? The way you limit yourself is trying to be everything to everybody, because you are nothing
178
00:36:59.740 --> 00:37:07.240
AJ Riedel: to anybody when you are spread that thin, when you're trying to be Jack of all trades, you are such a shining example of
179
00:37:07.400 --> 00:37:16.699
AJ Riedel: taking a niche, and then further refining it to the point that you know. Maybe someone else would say, that's a little too narrow.
180
00:37:16.830 --> 00:37:22.480
AJ Riedel: but you know that it's not too narrow. So
181
00:37:22.750 --> 00:37:26.950
AJ Riedel: how did you identify and develop that snitch to start.
182
00:37:28.180 --> 00:37:46.909
Mike: So a lot of times you're going to find that the niche will identify itself for you. You know where you're not even searching for it. For me it was simple. I just looked on paper and said, Where are my clients coming from? Right? What industries are they in? Where am I getting these referrals? Where are my satisfied client? Where's my satisfied client base?
183
00:37:47.190 --> 00:37:50.399
Mike: And a lot of times it'll just point itself out to you.
184
00:37:50.430 --> 00:38:02.159
Mike: Otherwise, like, if you're a consultant, you're going to find that a lot of consultants are already coming from a field. Maybe they're an attorney. Maybe they're in real estate. Maybe they're, you know, a Cpa.
185
00:38:02.160 --> 00:38:27.050
Mike: They already have a niche. They're already an expert in a specific field. So go ahead and focus on that. Specifically, it doesn't necessarily have to be okay. Here's a target group. I want to target them because I think I can make a lot of money for them, identify something, you know, and you're familiar with and do it. Another example that I do is I have an in the real estate market through, you know, friends, family members.
186
00:38:27.050 --> 00:38:33.030
Mike: So I did a digital course which is basically residual income, passive income.
187
00:38:33.270 --> 00:38:36.650
AJ Riedel: I focused it on digital marketing for real estate agents.
188
00:38:36.960 --> 00:38:46.890
Mike: Because I knew how to apply digital marketing specifically for real estate agents. So I could make a course that says, Hey, here's all the digital marketing. Here's the C.
189
00:38:47.400 --> 00:39:15.120
Mike: But when I started focusing specifically on real estate market for brokers agents, that's where I started getting more people to sign up for the course as opposed to just a generic one. Because these are specific people I could focus on. I knew that also one for attorneys. I have a law degree. So it was very easy for me to apply that to digital marketing and tell attorneys and law firms. Hey, you're looking for digital marketing. I consult with a lot of them. But hey, here's a class you can do.
190
00:39:15.480 --> 00:39:38.950
Mike: Bingo. There it is. You can learn everything you need to from this class if you want to. So I think a lot of times you're already going to be in that specific market. You know the people to reach out to. You know where they need the help and assistance. Sometimes it will come to you, meaning after you're in it. For a while you may notice a specific niche that's just bubbling up, needing, needing your services more and more.
191
00:39:39.820 --> 00:39:42.509
AJ Riedel: Okay, so listen, kind of listen to that.
192
00:39:42.510 --> 00:39:44.380
Mike: Absolutely, absolutely.
193
00:39:44.750 --> 00:39:56.730
AJ Riedel: Yeah, I like that to me that that is so important. And I and I especially loved your example of how you went so narrow. When when I 1st started consulting.
194
00:39:57.120 --> 00:40:07.670
AJ Riedel: I I told an old boss that I was going to focus specifically in the housewares industry, which was my niche for over 35 years.
195
00:40:07.810 --> 00:40:10.099
AJ Riedel: He told me it was too small a niche.
196
00:40:13.097 --> 00:40:18.909
AJ Riedel: but my claim I mean what the reason I was able to be
197
00:40:19.030 --> 00:40:41.649
AJ Riedel: successful in that industry is, I had no competition. It was too narrow a niche for the big market research firms, and after a couple of years I knew the industry better than my clients did who were in the industry, but I knew it from a different viewpoint. I knew it from a broader viewpoint, and it made me that was my key point of differentiation
198
00:40:42.080 --> 00:40:44.570
AJ Riedel: was being in a really narrow niche.
199
00:40:44.570 --> 00:41:02.009
Mike: That's great, and and I bet you had more success with more success in the same amount of money with a few clients in that niche than you would have been to shotgun it out to 20 different niche and trying to just pick up, you know, small projects on the way. I think that's excellent approach of what you did.
200
00:41:02.610 --> 00:41:05.370
AJ Riedel: Yeah, like, like, your approach.
201
00:41:05.370 --> 00:41:05.950
Mike: Hmm.
202
00:41:06.180 --> 00:41:11.299
AJ Riedel: You know. Stick to it. I want to switch to some mindset stuff.
203
00:41:11.430 --> 00:41:12.020
Mike: Yes.
204
00:41:12.180 --> 00:41:15.860
AJ Riedel: Many consultants face self-doubt and imposter syndrome.
205
00:41:16.200 --> 00:41:22.809
AJ Riedel: Was this something you experienced? And if so, what strategies helped you to overcome these mental barriers?
206
00:41:23.610 --> 00:41:24.770
Mike: Yeah, I
207
00:41:25.410 --> 00:41:42.019
Mike: it absolutely does. It affects everybody. I don't think anyone comes in and says, You know, I'm going to be a success and then not have this along the way, because you're always going to second. Guess yourself. Once you know, once the river starts flowing, once you're moving forward, you start looking left and right going. Where am I at?
208
00:41:42.340 --> 00:41:55.830
Mike: There's no real specific formula other than just knowing that there is a light at the end of the tunnel. If you keep. If you keep paddling, you know my mindset was, I'm going to do this until I fail.
209
00:41:55.950 --> 00:42:08.659
Mike: This is what I have. If I fail and lose everything fine. I've started over before I'm going to start over again. But I kept telling myself I would rather fail at this than look back and wish I would have failed.
210
00:42:08.760 --> 00:42:19.689
Mike: because I think that would have been a big regret right now, at 48, looking back 15 years going, man, if I would have only started this when I was in my early thirties. I wonder what would have happened?
211
00:42:19.810 --> 00:42:30.000
Mike: It's easier to look back and say, hey! I tried this in an absolute disaster. I went, broke, bankrupt everything, and had to start off, you know, working for a corporation again.
212
00:42:30.290 --> 00:42:33.410
Mike: So I think that's 1 thing that helped me
213
00:42:33.670 --> 00:42:54.250
Mike: just focus for for what I can tell. You know, new people starting off if you focus. If you keep moving forward there is like a lot of people will quit and give up. The other thing you got to think of is when you're in a mindset. Let's say you've been doing this for a year or 2 years, and you're thinking this just isn't working out. I want to quit.
214
00:42:54.300 --> 00:43:07.130
Mike: You're not the only person thinking that there are thousands of other people that are doing the exact same thing that you are doing, and they have that same mindset of. Maybe I should quit. Maybe I should give up. Guess what, if you don't.
215
00:43:07.230 --> 00:43:30.380
Mike: you're going to have 2,000 people get out of the market, and you're going to be further ahead of anyone else. It's kind of like climbing a ladder, you know. Some people on their way up. They just get tired or stressed or like, I don't even want to climb anymore. No problem. Just move to the right, move to the left, climb around them, let them have their space, but keep moving forward, and you will eventually succeed. If
216
00:43:30.380 --> 00:43:38.320
Mike: if you, if you have a process, you have a goal in mind, and you keep focusing on that goal, and you keep working towards that goal.
217
00:43:38.850 --> 00:43:40.249
Mike: You will get there.
218
00:43:40.850 --> 00:43:49.600
AJ Riedel: I love that point. I found a startling statistic the other day that 80% of self-employed consultants fail within the 1st 2 years.
219
00:43:49.600 --> 00:43:50.180
Mike: Yep.
220
00:43:50.360 --> 00:43:56.220
AJ Riedel: To your point. If you're a self-employed consultant and you just keep going, and you keep
221
00:43:56.440 --> 00:44:01.080
AJ Riedel: pushing forward at some point. Everybody else is going to drop away.
222
00:44:01.450 --> 00:44:06.970
Mike: Yes, yes, and it gets stressful. Don't. Don't get me wrong. There's days when you're gonna wake up.
223
00:44:07.540 --> 00:44:12.449
Mike: Think, why am I here? I just don't want to do it today, do it? You know it's
224
00:44:12.700 --> 00:44:29.459
Mike: I know it sounds like I'm saying, just turn the light switch on. It's something internally that you've got to find that's going to give you the motivation to do that. But if you do do that, and you do wake up and think I don't want to get on my email today. I don't want to go to Linkedin. I don't want to be on a podcast whatever it is.
225
00:44:29.460 --> 00:44:46.220
Mike: do it if you can. If you can find that switch in you to flip that on and keep going forward, you will succeed. A lot of people that go after 2 years. They just sit around. They're not doing anything. So again, they're sitting on that rung. No problem. Let them sit there. You're fine, but keep moving forward.
226
00:44:46.720 --> 00:44:50.460
Mike: So it's not just about time. It's absolutely what you're doing with that time.
227
00:44:50.970 --> 00:44:57.800
AJ Riedel: How did you overcome those early thoughts of you know, I mean, did you ever think?
228
00:44:58.360 --> 00:45:06.720
AJ Riedel: Who am I to be doing this? And and how am I? Gonna I mean, do I have credibility? How did you overcome those? Because.
229
00:45:06.720 --> 00:45:11.020
Mike: I mean I still do at times. Early on it was.
230
00:45:11.630 --> 00:45:15.880
Mike: you know, for me it's probably a little different for others, because I had nothing else.
231
00:45:16.060 --> 00:45:42.140
Mike: So it's like I have to have the credibility I have to learn today. If I don't know something, I have to go out and figure out how to do it. I have to get good at it. I have to be the best at it. So my motivation was I. It's like I jumped out of a plane. You know I'm not in the plane wondering whether or not I want to jump. I mean, I was pushed out. I'm falling to the ground. I have to learn how to operate that parachute. So for me, while it was tough.
232
00:45:42.340 --> 00:45:44.100
Mike: I couldn't look back.
233
00:45:44.230 --> 00:46:00.660
Mike: So you know, it's it's again. It's kind of different for others. You just have to know that, you know. You can look back in regrets, or you can move forward and say, hey? I tried and failed. It was great. No regrets doing it, but you know it didn't work out.
234
00:46:01.730 --> 00:46:05.549
AJ Riedel: I like that. I tend to like to
235
00:46:05.790 --> 00:46:10.849
AJ Riedel: kind of when I'm making decisions. It's like, how am I gonna feel on my deathbed?
236
00:46:10.850 --> 00:46:11.760
Mike: I guess.
237
00:46:12.070 --> 00:46:14.299
AJ Riedel: Am I going to look back and say.
238
00:46:14.410 --> 00:46:23.569
AJ Riedel: I wish I had, or am I gonna look back and say I'm glad I did, even if something fails, I'm glad. Yeah.
239
00:46:23.570 --> 00:46:26.059
AJ Riedel: love it. I always ask people if you died today.
240
00:46:26.420 --> 00:46:28.620
Mike: Would you be happy with what you accomplished?
241
00:46:29.540 --> 00:46:34.879
Mike: 99% of people will say, no. Well, I wish I would have done this. I wish I would have done it. Go, do it
242
00:46:35.120 --> 00:46:36.189
Mike: and go do it.
243
00:46:36.510 --> 00:46:42.059
Mike: You know you you like you said you don't want to be on your deathbed, and look back and and regret not doing something.
244
00:46:42.190 --> 00:46:56.559
Mike: I would rather regret doing something than regret not doing something. I would rather look back and go. Oh, I can't believe I wasted 10 years on that business could have done something else than than looking back, going. I wonder what would have happened if I spent 10 years on that business.
245
00:46:56.840 --> 00:46:59.120
AJ Riedel: Yeah, if I tried it. Well.
246
00:46:59.120 --> 00:47:01.789
Mike: Yeah, yes, it's a great way to look at it. I love it.
247
00:47:02.060 --> 00:47:11.779
AJ Riedel: Yeah, how do you handle rejections or prod projects that turn into nightmares? How do you handle that.
248
00:47:12.430 --> 00:47:14.630
Mike: Rejections used to be tough.
249
00:47:15.260 --> 00:47:41.199
Mike: again it does. It makes you feel like you're not worthy like. Oh, maybe I shouldn't be here. Maybe I'm not the person to do this. It's it's the successes that I think you focus on as opposed to the rejections. You know, once you have a few successful projects under your belt. You can always look to those and say, I've done this. I've done this a million times. I know how to do it. I'm very successful at it. So maybe this just didn't work out.
250
00:47:41.320 --> 00:48:00.800
Mike: You also have to use those types of failures, the the failed projects, the projects that go on and on and back and forth. You need to dissect those. I think a lot of people go. Oh, this is a failure. I'm glad I'm done with that project I'm now going to focus over here. I love to focus on the disasters because you need to figure out what went wrong.
251
00:48:01.333 --> 00:48:27.479
Mike: Was it something on your end? A process that you can change again? Maybe it's a client that you should have said no to. Maybe it wasn't a good fit for both of you, one or the other. You need to look at those processes. So just like I was saying earlier, you need to ask people why they decided to use you right? Because you'll say, Hey, why did you decide? Use? Maybe it was Price Point. Maybe it was your communication. Maybe it was the value in it, or whatever you also need to ask people why they didn't use you
252
00:48:27.880 --> 00:48:48.739
Mike: right? So if someone says, Hey, I appreciate you. We're not going to move forward. Say no problem. You know I appreciate the time for future for my own feedback. Could you please allow you know or tell me what was the main thing. That was your concern right? Even if you get ghosted on a lot of projects which you will, you know from experience. You'll send out
253
00:48:48.800 --> 00:49:09.600
Mike: quotes to people, and you'll follow up 3 or 4 times and never hear back. It's pretty much they're not going to use your business. No problem. I send one final email. Hey? I appreciate it. I understand you're probably going another route with this. If you could just help me out for for my benefit, for future projects with others. Can you tell me what it was that allowed you to choose another provider over us?
254
00:49:09.790 --> 00:49:26.839
Mike: And if you get that feedback hang on to it, it helps you move past those. So I think some of those failures are good to have. They hit hard. They do hit hard, especially in the beginning, because you think, Oh, my God! But you learn that those failures always lead to future successes.
255
00:49:28.290 --> 00:49:40.059
AJ Riedel: There are always lessons to be learned in the failure. I love the advice of asking why they didn't go with you. I think a lot of consultants are afraid to ask that.
256
00:49:40.060 --> 00:49:40.780
Mike: Yeah.
257
00:49:41.090 --> 00:49:46.539
AJ Riedel: You know, and because you know, and and that comes back to insecurity of you know.
258
00:49:47.160 --> 00:50:03.729
AJ Riedel: what are they gonna say? And people pleasing, which is a big issue. You know what that means. They didn't like me. But if you look at it as feedback, that's gonna make me better able to serve clients in the future, then it's a whole different way to refer to frame
259
00:50:03.920 --> 00:50:05.620
AJ Riedel: them, saying, No.
260
00:50:06.510 --> 00:50:14.329
Mike: Yeah, correct. Don't. Don't take rejection as something negative rejection is could be anything. Someone could have been having a bad day.
261
00:50:14.540 --> 00:50:26.880
Mike: Maybe they just felt like rejecting it. Maybe they didn't like your personality. Okay, I get that. You know, I'm not for everyone. Other people aren't for everyone. Maybe it's something with your products or services that you need to pivot from.
262
00:50:26.890 --> 00:50:50.180
Mike: in which case, if you don't pivot, you will start losing a lot of business. I'll give you a great example from probably 10 years ago, where I replied to someone and said, Hey, can you know? Basically let me know why you didn't use my business. And the gentleman came back and says, You know, when you replied to my initial email, you didn't even use my 1st name. You didn't even say Thank you for reaching out.
263
00:50:50.720 --> 00:51:18.020
Mike: And initially, I thought, how dare him criticize me like that? I at least replied to his email and answered all his questions. Then I stopped and looked for a minute, and I'm like that does look pretty crappy. How would I feel if if now 1st names on everything. I address people properly because it's respectful, you know. I didn't realize that that was being disrespectful to this person, and here I had lost business from somebody because I wasn't being respectful.
264
00:51:18.830 --> 00:51:37.260
Mike: Think of the business I would have lost in the last 10 years had I continued with that pattern, so that one rejection has helped me understand? You know what you do, you? It doesn't matter how busy you are. Take the time to show people respect just like they would respect you. So sometimes those rejections are. Again, they're good for you.
265
00:51:37.450 --> 00:51:39.959
AJ Riedel: Old. Yeah. Yeah.
266
00:51:40.460 --> 00:51:42.299
AJ Riedel: One last question.
267
00:51:42.300 --> 00:51:42.950
Mike: Yes.
268
00:51:43.470 --> 00:51:49.919
AJ Riedel: If you could go back and give yourself one piece of advice when you started consulting.
269
00:51:50.250 --> 00:51:51.479
AJ Riedel: what would it be.
270
00:51:52.930 --> 00:51:55.559
Mike: Wow! That's a great question.
271
00:51:56.500 --> 00:52:02.499
Mike: Great question. I I think the best thing is, don't get distracted.
272
00:52:03.270 --> 00:52:06.360
Mike: and I think that distraction comes from fear
273
00:52:06.670 --> 00:52:28.790
Mike: the distraction may come from prizes. You may see something specific that you may want to chase. That looks more lucrative in your niche, or something like that I just say, don't get distracted on what you're doing. If you get distracted, start looking left or right, pivoting too much from what your business plan is, you're more likely going to fail.
274
00:52:28.900 --> 00:52:35.930
Mike: Go and exhaust whatever whatever your plan is, exhaust that before you pivot one way or another, so
275
00:52:36.080 --> 00:52:44.559
Mike: don't let rejections distract you. Don't let other people, and what they're doing distracts you. Don't let money distract you. Don't let anything distract you.
276
00:52:45.270 --> 00:52:47.739
AJ Riedel: And don't let bright, shiny object syndrome.
277
00:52:47.980 --> 00:52:51.550
Mike: Course, of course. Again, you know, you may chase the money, which is good.
278
00:52:51.680 --> 00:52:59.959
Mike: but chase good money, chase good projects, don't just chase money for the sake of chasing money, because you're going to be in a
279
00:53:00.220 --> 00:53:26.109
Mike: just a churn. You're going to be getting churned like butter over and over and over. And it just it's not going to be beneficial to you or your clients. So focus and don't get distracted. Don't let things like sleep or TV get distracted, you know. You may find a time where you're like, hey? You know what? I'm just going to watch another episode of my show. No, have a schedule. You want to watch TV. That's great. Have a schedule where you sit down and do it, but focus on everything else that you need to do
280
00:53:26.120 --> 00:53:30.820
Mike: otherwise. It's only your fault. If you look back and you fail, say, what could I have done differently?
281
00:53:30.910 --> 00:53:34.440
Mike: You could have not gotten distracted. You could have focused on what you were supposed to do.
282
00:53:34.800 --> 00:53:50.329
AJ Riedel: Right? Yeah, distraction. This has been so good. We could talk for hours. But there's so many nuggets in the in what you've talked about today that I hope that self employed consultants who listen to this podcast
283
00:53:50.630 --> 00:54:01.750
AJ Riedel: really take time and absorb the wisdom that you have shared with us today, I really appreciate you coming on the podcast. And that's a wrap for today.
284
00:54:02.290 --> 00:54:04.720
Mike: Yeah, thanks again for having me on. I really appreciate it.
285
00:54:05.100 --> 00:54:06.130
AJ Riedel: Thank you.
